The 2017 Civic is an appalling pile of garbage

"cletus44 aka Clayton Seams" (cletus44)
11/11/2016 at 09:50 • Filed to: None

Why do people even buy these? I have a 2017 Honda Civic press car with the 1.5 turbo and a stick. It’s absolutely the most infuriating, annoying, and joyless thing I have ever driven.

Number one! Visibility! There is none. At 5'9" I know I’m not especially tall but I feel like the dashboard comes up to my chin and I can’t see anything out of it. It’s like the seat needs to me half a foot up from where it is. (Yes, I adjusted the height as much as I could. Rear visibility is a complete disaster and I have to rely on the backup camera to perform the simplest of reversing maneuvers. And I parallel park my Suburban with ease in downtown regularly.

Next up! Ergonomics! Holy fuck has Honda forgotten where people’s arms are mounted? The important thing to know is that Honda continues its crusade against volume knobs by giving you a volume slider that is nearly impossible to operate while driving. The knobs that look like volume knobs are actually climate control knobs so every time a good song comes on, I end up changing the climate control. Fucking brilliant, Honda. Gold star. The wheel is okay but reaching for the shifter makes me feel like I’m the rat fink shifting through the sunroof or something. It’s mounted nearly as high as the horn button putting my arm at a strange angle when shifting.

Which brings me to the shifting. I know everyone here jerks off to manual transmissions and wonders why nobody buys them anymore in mainstream cars. Well here’s the reason: They’re shit. Yeah the transmission in your Miata or E36 is fun and engaging but this manual is so clearly and afterthought that it’s a wonder they sell any at all. The flywheel on this fucker must weigh like 55 pounds. The revs take AGES to fall when you upshift from gear to the next. And I mean FOREVER. From 3,200 to 2,000 takes 2.5 seconds. I timed it. That’s 2.5 seconds every time you want to shift at 3k RPM into the next gear. So rather than wait, you can rush it but then it slams forward as the revs come crashing down. It was so obviously designed to be a lifeless engine mushily controlled by an automatic they didn’t even bother to tune it for the manual option.

What else is there to say? It looks awful, weighs as much as a small moon, has zero steering feel and I hate it. I can’t stand it. I drove it from the pick up location to my house and it will sit there until I can return this pile of garbage. I’ve driven a ton of new cars through my job and this is by far the most unpleasant car I have ever piloted. Honda, you make me sad.

DISCUSSION (53)

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 09:53

Should have gotten the CVT — I hear it’s the modern Prelude!

LongbowMkII > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 09:55

This is good automotive journalism.

E92M3 > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 09:55

Well, props for telling your real opinion, even if it means you’ll never get another Honda press car.

jariten1781 > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 09:58

The rev hang is likely an emissions thing not a heavy fly wheel. If the butterfly slams shut you get a spike of lean burn so pretty much all new factory tunes on manuals with throttle by wire damp the closing action. That leads to rev hang that emulates old heavy flywheels. Tuners take it out by rule.

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > jariten1781
11/11/2016 at 10:01

I never knew this but that makes sense. Thanks for the info!

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > E92M3
11/11/2016 at 10:03

I’m already off their list for comments about the NSX but I find my way behind the wheel regardless. Gotta be crafty in this biz.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 10:04

They buy them for the same reason most people vote Republican/Democrat/Liberal/Conservative... Mah daddy and his daddy befer him

Probenja > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 10:07

On the ergonomics side Honda decided that people’s arms are 5 ft long so they put the armrest on the Fit really low so owners had to make home made extensions as the armrest doesn’t adjust:

Kinja'd!!!

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
11/11/2016 at 10:07

Likely true! Dunno about the states but these new Civics are super popular here in Canada. And it used to be a good car! I really like the EF and EK versions.

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > Probenja
11/11/2016 at 10:08

That there is an elegant solution.

Takuro Spirit > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 10:09

The hanging revs thing is a electronic throttle problem. Manufacturers think we’re so bad at driving stick that they make the fucking revs hang between them so it saves wear and tear on their clutch (god forbid they have to pay for a warranty replacement) and makes the 14 second grandma shift possible.

ttyymmnn > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 10:10

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. We just bought a 2013 Civic, but we test drove the 2017. I thought it was an unmitigated disaster of ergonomics and bloat. Many of the things you complain about are also present in the 2013, though ours is an automatic. The steering is extremely light and has ZERO feel, but coming after my 2001 Golf, what do you expect? My wife likes it, and she DDs it. Even with the camera, I can’t back up straight to save my life. Even on the 2013, visibility is poor everywhere but out the front window. And don’t get me started on where the hell my arms are supposed to go. The arm rest is too low and the window sill is too high.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 10:10

I realized with the Fit a couple of years ago that as much as I liked some aspects of the design language and imagination, the whole understanding of how to do things was alien and the ergonomics (particularly seat, wheel, etc. etc.) were from Somewhere In Space, at least for somebody my height. Sad to hear they’ve continued down that road beyond reason.

Tekamul > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 10:14

Thank you for confirming my suspicions that the inside is as hideous as the outside.

As a former Honda fanboi, I’ve grown to hate the H on anything made in the last 8 years.

TysMagic > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 10:14

can we get a more indepth review on if the front and rear bumper are as similar as I seem to see them as? I’ve looked at pictures over and over, it feels like really lazy design to me

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 10:14

Fuck Rev hang.

It’s not the flywheel. It’s an anti-peak-emissions strategy built into the ECU program that keeps the engine from spiking into a rich running condition during shifting/clutching and throwing unburned hydrocarbons out the exhaust. *EVERY* modern manual transmission car does it to some degree, some are smart enough to let go as soon as the clutch starts to come back up, eliminating, or at least lessening the shift-surge you describe. Hell, even the FieSTa does it. Fuck it. Fuck it hard. Throttle-by-wire engines are the worst offenders, but even non TBW engines these days have dampers built into the throttle butterfly.

I haven’t driven one, so I can’t comment on your other points, but I trust you.

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > ttyymmnn
11/11/2016 at 10:15

I hear you, man. The 2013 is way better than the new one. And as much as people whine about it, the auto/CVT in these cars is the way to go. The Golf is nice. Heavy, but nice and unbeatable interior for the segment IMO.

McMike > Probenja
11/11/2016 at 10:15

You think that’s bad, look at what some have to do to the seats to make them comfortable.

Kinja'd!!!

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > jariten1781
11/11/2016 at 10:15

rich burn, not lean, but yeah, exactly that. Fuck rev hang.

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > TysMagic
11/11/2016 at 10:16

Hmmmm that’s an interesting thought. I’ll have to look at the one I have when I get home (I took the subway today rather than drive it)

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > ttyymmnn
11/11/2016 at 10:17

I had a 2013 Civic!

The damn seats and seating position made me crazy. You couldn’t comfortably lean your arm out the window. The steering was a joke. And there were some gnarly blind spots. But when I failed to pass an old Kia Shortage I had enough

Needless to say I got rid of mine after 16 months.

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
11/11/2016 at 10:17

Oh that makes sense. It’s absolutely maddening. I don’t know how they expect people to actually drive it smoothly.

interstate366, now In The Industry > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
11/11/2016 at 10:24

Whoa there, let’s not say things we can’t take back.

(I know it was Torch, but still, it makes me bristle)

jimz > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 10:35

it’s funny how Ford got smacked so hard for touch controls and sliders to the point they went back to buttons, but now other car companies are going to touch controls and sliders and I don’t hear nearly as much fuss.

Textured Soy Protein > ttyymmnn
11/11/2016 at 10:36

My wife had a 2013 Civic that we replaced with a 2016 Impreza (we’ve been leasing cars for her because her mileage is so low). The Civic didn’t really bother me, it was just decent and boring. The visibility didn’t really bother me compared to a lot of the other rolling bathtubs out there nowadays. The visibility in our Impreza is better though.

jimz > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
11/11/2016 at 10:36

yep. snap-throttle emissions spikes are a tough thing to clean up, so they don’t let you snap the throttle anymore.

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > jimz
11/11/2016 at 10:38

I hate it all. The best system currently in my opinion is the Chrysler/Dodge infotainment. I think it’s called MyLink? Anyways that system is slightly slow but great otherwise.

jimz > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 10:39

UConnect. MyLink is Chevy.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
11/11/2016 at 10:42

Thank you for that explanation. And for teaching me a new term: rev hang.

I owned a couple of P71 Crown Vics and while it could hardly be any more different than a Civic, rev hanging and slow shifting made them gutless wonders.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 10:42

It’s sad because Honda used to have rather good manual transmissions.

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > jimz
11/11/2016 at 10:43

Right. Not as big a fan of the Chevy setup.

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > TheTurbochargedSquirrel
11/11/2016 at 10:44

I know. They used to rule that domain and now they’re one of the worst.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 10:47

My brother just bought a Civic that is two or three years old and his wife drives it to work daily. It’s a four-cyl auto. She likes it, and that’s vitally important. Honestly, I don’t think she cares too much what she drives so long as it’s dependable and comfortable.

But to manual transmissions: I own a ‘91 Toyota Corolla Base Model and my wife and I love driving it. The throttle body is a little bit wonky close to idle and the car can do a bit of a herky-jerk in a traffic jam, but in all, it’s spunky and I maintain it well. Currently, there are serviceable KYB struts all around and serviceable brakes. I had it on a windy road recently and it was responsive and just a joy to drive. 235,000 miles and I want to keep it forever. The transaxle is showing its age, with chunky shifts into third, and sometimes, third wants to pop out when you engage the clutch...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
11/11/2016 at 10:49

Please see above.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn
11/11/2016 at 10:50

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/1788860449

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
11/11/2016 at 10:50

Thanks for the schooling.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 10:51

I never appreciated my ‘96 DX until I started driving more modern cars recently. Build quality, efficiency, enjoyment, visibility, ergonomics were perfect for what it was.

That poor car.

ttyymmnn > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
11/11/2016 at 10:56

The other thing that bugs me is that the driver seat isn’t centered on the wheel. It was even worse in a 2017 Odyssey I drove.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 11:13

I can’t wait for you to eloquently rip this thing to shreds. Someone needs to go against popular opinion and give Honda a reality check that they’re not untouchable in the Canadian compact car market.

shop-teacher > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 11:15

So it drives like it looks? Duly noted!

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > shop-teacher
11/11/2016 at 11:16

Drives like butt.

shop-teacher > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 11:16

Stinky butt?

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
11/11/2016 at 11:23

My Mini is particularly awful about rev hang in 1st. No other gear is an issue but 1st to 2nd changes are a pain to get smooth. At times you can clutch in and coast/brake and the revs drop so slowly it almost seems like the clutch is still engaged. Only ever happens in 1st.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 11:41

“The revs take AGES to fall when you upshift from gear to the next.”

That’s probably because of the emissions-friendly programing. And why bother waiting? Just shift, ease in the clutch and be done with it. Sure it’s *slightly* more wear on the clutch, but that’s not the end of the world.

“I’ve driven a ton of new cars through my job and this is by far the most unpleasant car I have ever piloted.”

This tells me that we need to find you some TRULY unpleasant cars for you to try out.

Anyone here have a Chevette or old Hyundai Pony for Cletus to try out?

Noah - Now with more boost. > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 11:50

I HATE modern civics. My parents own two of them, and half of the people I work with lease them. It’s the automotive equivalent of driving to the supermarket to get wonder bread when you live next to an artisan bakery.

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
11/11/2016 at 12:30

Let’s see: 1982 Chevy Nova (The Toyota in drag) Geo Metro, 1988 Micra, 2015 Micra, 2016 Mitsubishi Mirage, Smart car (both generations including the electric ones) the list goes on. Civic is hands down the worst.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 14:17

I’ve driven the 40HP Smart CDi, Geo Metro, Chevettes and the Hyundai Pony... I find it hard to believe that a new Civic would be worse. I’ll have to test drive one myself.

arl > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 14:21

They are truly ugly cars. And it doesn’t surprise me it drives like crap. I traded in my 2013 Accord Sport because I couldn’t take the crappy ride any longer. It was like someone has installed mis-matched springs and dampers. It crashed and bounced whenever the road had any sort of imperfection. Smooth roads were OK, but God help you if you drove over a pot hole or rough pavement.

It’s shocking how bad Honda car design and execution have become.

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
11/11/2016 at 14:58

You’ve got to quantify “worst.” In terms of speed and efficiency, the Civic beats those. But the Civic, unlike a dorky Chevette, is not rare, odd, or like those other hatchbacks, refreshingly basic. It’s a bland modern car like all the other blobs.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 15:07

The Chevette is only rare today because they were common, crappy, throwaway cars in the past.

There were 4 Chevettes that went through my family when I was growing up.

They were not refreshing... at all.

ttyymmnn > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 17:22

I forgot to add that the engine in the 2013 EX-L is absolutely gutless. You stomp on the accelerator, and the engine says, “Okay, I’ll be with you in a minute.”

The AE86 of Mt. Akina (Hachi) > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
11/11/2016 at 18:58

Waiting for the Si now I guess.

bmarsh055 > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
05/02/2018 at 15:55

lol shut up short stock... lol you’re vertically challenged.